Yo SDK
Bad Day?
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Yo SDK
Bad Day?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are right there, and I think you mean "eloquent".Quote:
Originally posted by SDK:
I'm sorry Steve, you're right. I am not an elequant writer or speaker for that matter...
Sorry, I just had to!
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Vinnie practiced to a broken metronome when he was a kid for years. Listen to Shut Up And Play Your Guitar. He can't even play straight sixteenth note fills. He plays like 17 notes over 5 and plays quintuplets and stuff. It's like he can't count to four. Can't play to a click? Just throw in some 17tuplets and your set. [img]graemlins/cry_smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/pizza.gif[/img]
I disagree with the bop comment. Listen to guys on the old recordings and tell me you don't think Vince could replicate that. Anyone who's gone through most of Chapin's book can, or anyone who's listened to their share of Bird, Diz, etc. He can swing, and he can play that style. I just don't believe that he hasn't gone through that sort of stuff. Of course he doesn't play straight-ahead styles with Chick; that's not Chick's thing. But I would like to note he's proven himself in fusion/modern jazz/big band now for a while. I guess I'll keep waiting for a straight-ahead trio recording to see if I'm right.
He ain't no Brian Blade, though, when it comes to swingin'... but i ain't either... but still, he ain't. [img]wink.gif[/img]
I was kinda wishing that he (Vinnie) sucked, cause it would make me feel better [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I am always down to hear about people not being able to totally nail the click... misery loves company [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 03, 2005 01:11 AM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font>
Sorry for coming off that way. It gets frustrating sometimes listening to comments on here that are simply not right. I tend to get egdy. HA! I had a great day actually.
I think everyone knows I wasn't insulting Vinnie's playing, so let's not jump on that bandwagon.
No Cameron, Vinnie does not sound like those guys on the old recordings. You can argue it until you're blue in the face. Vinny can't even play an open tuning bass drum, which is one of the elementary techniques of a jazz drummer. He buries the beater. And those are his words. If you think he can swing a big band like a real big band drummer, then I don't know what to say. Check out some Basie maybe? He doesn't get called for real swingin jazz gigs, or big band gigs. Vinnie is an amazing backbeat session drummer and the worlds best fusion drummer. He has taken the intstrument to new heights. Now that's my opinion. Those are mainly the type of gigs he gets called for.
Cameron, pick up Chick's Tribute to Bud Powell. Tell me straight ahead's not his thing after you give that a good listen. He comes from that, but he's not a be bop pianist. But chick, unlike Vinnie, can pull those chops out whenever he wants. Niether Max Roach Art Blakey, or Philly Joe are in Vinnie's list of influences. And Tony was not a be-bop drummer, although he came out of that.
Why is it so hard for people in here to except that Vinnie can't play traditional jazz? I'm sure if he wanted to he would, but he hasn't. I know there are some jazz guys in here that should speak up! haha!
There are very few drummers who play backbeat very well that can sit behind a four peice bebop kit, and play being true to the artform of jazz. Blade, Tain, Hass, Erskine, Hoenig, Clarence Penn, Alison Miller, Greg Hutchinson, and a few others.
Hmmmm.
I've heard Vinnie play with dead on accuracy... and with tons of up and down movement. I think he just does whatever he feels is appropriate. I agree with SDK on the jazz thing. Vinnie's not a jazz drummer. Saying that Vinnie can kill straight ahead simply insults the many drummers who spend years learning the language.
There are 2 albums that I have Vinnie on where the drums fall slightly out of the pocket on some fills. One is Kate Bush's Red Shoes( I think that's the title) and the other is Shawn Colvins Fat City.
No one is perfect 100% of the time. I think if you look past his delivery, that is all SDK is saying. I also agree on nailing the click. It's not always the musical thing to do. Especially if you're playing to existing tracks that are a little floaty.
I used to think Vinnie's jazz swing type playing was his weaker style but I could always sense that he was going to continue to improve on it. I started seeing Vinnie live in the clubs here in L.A. in 84' and never stopped. That being said, listen to an early jazz recording like Brandon Fields album "The Traveler" where he did Studio Cafe Blues, then listen to Randy Waldman's recording, basically anything from "Wigged Out" and you can here that his jazz playing has matured and the feel is more authentic than in the past. Some of the best bebop drummers of the past did their best recordings at an older age (except Tony). Saying he isn't a pure bebop player, perfect click player, or whatever is beside the point. It's his mind and the way he approaches the drumset that make him the recognizable genius that he is today. I've heard that Einstein couldn't do simple math or even balance his own finances yet he had one of the greatest scientific minds in our history. So one could make the case that because Einstein couldn't balance a check book your grandmother would be a better choice for financial advise...(huh?). That's so deep I'm not even sure of what I am saying. Basically the people that post on this site are generally into Vinnie's type of drumming along with a whole slew of other greats. Starting a debate about who is better at sticking to a click is irrelevant. For my money, I'd rather hear Vinnie play 2 & 4 anyday.....
I'm sure there are things he can't do, but he sure nails the music.
Plays the instrument nicely too.